More worms come out of the D2185 can!

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Peter Hall
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:51 am

More worms come out of the D2185 can!

Post by Peter Hall » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:39 pm

Just when you think you are making a step forward with a 'Diesel Dilemma' some new information emerges which muddies the waters even more. That has been the case today with the dilemma concerning D2185 and D2186. A couple of photographs have emerged that are believed to have been taken in Birds Cardiff yard in late summer/autumn 1971. One is of a Class 03 which although originally thought to be D2185 could well actually be D2187 that has never been recorded as being there! The other is of a later build BR North British 0-4-0 but the only one ever known to have been there is recorded as having been scrapped the previous year!

The dilemma can be found at http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels ... sels/D2185 Please take a look, particularly if you have any knowledge whatsoever of Birds Cardiff yard as confirmation that this is the location of the pictures is needed.

It is hoped to add a few more details in the coming days as some other fresh information is analysed. Certainly the number of published references to former BR shunting locomotives connected with Birds that appear to need correcting is growing.

Peter Hall
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:51 am

Re: More worms come out of the D2185 can!

Post by Peter Hall » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:36 am

Following a discussion with John Hall last night a few further updates have been made this morning. Thanks to web guru David Jackman a technical issue has been resolved and all pictures should now be showing.

Could I also make an appeal here for anyone who ever saw D2185, D2186, D2187 after official withdrawal to submit those sightings. Any sighting will be of great importance I can assure you. In addition any sightings of D2186 in 1969 when it was in store but clearly was not would also be appreciated.

BigMal442
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:02 pm

Re: More worms come out of the D2185 can!

Post by BigMal442 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:40 pm

Hi Peter,
The areas that are mentioned as to Birds Scrapyard in the use of the 03's is to the east of the main Cardiff Docks complex.
It is between Splott and what was Pengam Farm. On the North East of Pengam Farm site was built the Tremorfa Works. Here the coast is on a North East-South West alignment. To the SW of the Pengam farm site was the Dowlais steel works which had many buildings and tracks along with other firms. The road running parrallel with the coast and to the North of the works sites and into the docks is Rover Way. To the West of the steelworks were the railtracks and siding in a North-South alignment, the junction being near Roath. Roath Dock was to the west of these railway lines with the lines spliting to both sides of the dock and Queen Alexander dock silghtly further South and West. Bute Dock was to the North West of Roath Dock on an almost North-South alignment.
The Birds site was to the North of Tremorfa Works next to Rover Way, This is now Sims Metals, Birds Having sold this part of the scrap metal work to Sims.
I presume that the 40 acre site is the Pengam Farm site but can find no confirmation.
I have not found a map that shows all the area and road names the 1970s os map being the best. This area has seen much redevelopment and Rover Way is now a widened part complete new link road.

Cheers
BM

Peter Hall
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:51 am

Re: More worms come out of the D2185 can!

Post by Peter Hall » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:50 pm

Very much appreciate the contribution from BM. Very useful indeed.

Ironically, in some documents I have been looking at today, whilst battling a cold, is a letter signed by Mr M G Marshall on 22/2/79 who was then a director and general manager of Bird Group.

Mr Marshall says "The B.S.P plant has been operational since October 1977 & previously this company operated at 40 Acre Site." I believe the B.S.P. plant is the location being referred to as the current Sims yard. It also appears that this was not the location that D2185 was located. Thus, we now appear to be looking at two different locations with one replacing the other in 1977 which ties in with what BM says.

Still struggling to find a suitable map but if anyone has a 6"/mile of the area from which they could scan the area that would be useful. Alternatively could anyone give a six digit OS reference to the location of the two yards based on personal knowledge.

It would also be very useful if anyone can give the six digit OS reference for the Class 08 stabling locations of Roath Dock North, Roath Dock East and Tidal marshalling sidings c1975 as this might also help.

Thanks again to BM for his help.

BigMal442
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:02 pm

Re: More worms come out of the D2185 can!

Post by BigMal442 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:20 pm

Hi Peter,
To add further an article today states that the local council (Cardiff) are to close Rover Way from 12:00 till 12:00 tomorrow because of a funeral from the gypsy camp site off Rover Way on part of the site. Also quoted is that Rover Way has no pavements and has blind bends -slightly different to the map.
A modern directory shows two other scrap merchants opperating from the Dowlis steel plant end of the site but I do not know if these are offices or yards.
Part of the steel works is still in use but under a different name & owner.
Oh! I forgot there is a history of Birds Group on the Internet.

Cheers
BM

Peter Hall
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:51 am

Re: More worms come out of the D2185 can!

Post by Peter Hall » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:02 pm

I have now done a further update incorporating the details kindly supplied by BM. We still though do not have accurate OS Grid references for the Birds Group, Cardiff Yards, If you can help please make contact.

Something else which would be of great use is a picture of D2125 during Bird Group ownership. Can you help?

Peter Hall
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:51 am

Re: More worms come out of the D2185 can!

Post by Peter Hall » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:10 pm

The D2185 dilemma http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels ... sels/D2185 has now been fully updated to take account of fresh information received this week. The Class 03 photographed in c1971 is now believed to almost certainly be D2125 although its livery does closely match that carried by D2187. It would also appear that D2187 never left Long Marston during the 1970s.

Further observations of D2185 and D2186 and photographs of D2125, D2185 and D2186 in the 1970s would be very much welcomed.

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